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Old Aug 18th, 2006, 12:51 PM
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2 nights in Agra?

Is it too much to spend 2 nights in Agra? I've read on this forum and in guidebooks that it's best to get out of Agra as soon as possible.

But we can book the Sheraton in Agra using our SPG points, and thought it might be good to veg out in the hotel and leisurely check out the vicinity toward the end of our trip, rather than spending an extra day in Delhi. Has anyone stayed at the Sheraton in Agra? Is it a pleasant place to relax? We would want to wander outside and just look at the town and market too, but mainly just to take it easy on that last day.

Should we do this or you wouldn't recommend it at all?

Thanks.
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Old Aug 18th, 2006, 01:27 PM
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We spent two nights in Agra but not at the Sheraton. We did stop in at the Sheraton to check out the shopping arcade and it looked like a decent place but not on the level of Amarvilas where we stayed. I don't think it is in an area where you would benefit from just wandering outside but then there is really no place in Agra that is. It is actually a fairly large city that is not particularly pedestrian friendly. In addition, because it is such a tourist area, you will likely be hassled by all sorts trying to sell you something or take you somewhere. Maybe someone else can chime in on whether you can just relax at the Sheraton. We certainly did relax at Amarvilas upon our arrival at mid-day, doing nothing but sleeping, eating and enjoying the evening show from the our deck. We did all of our touring on the next day - Taj Mahal, Agra Fort and "baby taj". We did Fatephur Sikri 45 minutes outside of Agra on the following day on our way to Jaipur.
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Old Aug 18th, 2006, 02:18 PM
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The Mughal Sheraton is a great hotel. I stayed there for 2 nights in 2002.

Checked in, saw the Taj, overnight
Next day Agra Fort, chilled out, overnight. Next day drove to Jaipur, Fatepuhr Sikr en route.

I tried walking out from the hotelone evening and was bombarded by people wanting to give me a ride. I gave up and went back in. I was also covered with dust.

My tour guide was from Agra, so the first night I walked out from the hotel and and met them for dinner across the street.

Sit at the Sheraton observation deck and watch the sun go down behind the Taj and otherwise chill.

waynehazleDOTcom/india/Day6/Pages/s2_206.htm
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Old Aug 18th, 2006, 03:03 PM
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Thanks, Craig and waynehazle for your opinions. It sounds like it will be difficult just to wander off on your own in Agra.

waynehazle, I like your shots of the Taj from the Sheraton--the beautiful Taj rising out of the slum. Very unique perspective! What particular part of the hotel did you take that shot from? Was it that close or you had to zoom in a lot? Thanks!
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Old Aug 18th, 2006, 03:13 PM
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All I know is it was the part that said 'Observation Deck' and it was a tiny deck.

I think I had a 100 - 300mm zoom lens and it wasn't fully extended. But yes I love the contrast.
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Old Aug 18th, 2006, 04:56 PM
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We spent 3 nights at this hotel in March of this year. We arrived late the first night, went to Fatephur Sikri, and the fort the next day and then to the Taj and the Baby Taj the second day. We did some shopping around Agra in some of the shops. This was all at the end of three weeks in India and we were now very able to deal with the touts, which I don't think were any worse here than in Delhi.

As for the Mughal Sheraton, it is a very nice hotel with polished marble floors and very clean and comfortable. It is very expensive, drinks in the lounge (as I remember) were about US$12-$15; internet about $10 per hour. There are about 5 restaurants in the hotel and they are outrageously expensive by any standard. The grounds are very nice. I would skip any shopping at the hotel.

We left for the Delhi airport in the morning of the last day, so we felt that those 3 nights and 2 full days in Agra were about right at the end of our India adventure and we have no regrets.
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Old Aug 18th, 2006, 05:06 PM
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tatersalad, thanks for the detailed info on the Sheraton in Agra. It looks like we'll book 2 nights there toward the end of our trip. Did you book a guide/tour for sightseeing? How and with whom did you do it?

Another question: Is it risky to take the train back from Agra to Delhi on the last day when we're flying home? Likely delays or train cancellation? That last day is a Sat. but our flight leaves at 2 a.m. (officially Sunday).
I haven't checked the train schedule yet. Also, not sure where to put our luggage if we want to shop in Delhi before heading to the airport. Or is it better to spend the last night in Delhi?

Thanks all for your help!

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Old Aug 18th, 2006, 05:23 PM
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There are a lot of trains from
Agra to Delhi, although the shabadhi (sp?) express is the nicest. It only takes about 3 hours to Delhi, so you could allow for major delays, and use the time for shopping if there are none.

I would arrange for a driver to meet you at the train station, and have him drive you around to shop all afternoon. Your bags should be safe in his car if he comes recommended. Another option is to leave your bags at a hotel and do your shopping on foot or by taxi. If you stayed at a hotel earlier in your trip you might ask if you can just drop some stuff in their luggage room on that last day. Another option, my favorite, is to rent a room for part of a day. This is a nice option, as you won't need to leave for the airport till about 11pm, and dinner and shopping may not keep you busy till then. Plus you get to shower and repack for the flight in the privacy of your own room!

Often new guests don't arrive till very late, so the hotels are fine with having you in a room till 10pm or so.
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Old Aug 18th, 2006, 05:27 PM
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I agree with Lucy - have a driver meet you at the train and reserve a hotel room for 1/2 day (although you may end up paying an overnight rate if you leave at 11 pm). It's worth it to have a place to shower up before your long trip home.
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Old Aug 18th, 2006, 05:44 PM
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JC: We used a car and driver which we had pre-arraigned from home, I don't remember who we used but it was all via email. I started out with an email to someone that was recommended by Frommers and that person handed me off to someone else. I think that the cost for car and driver was about US$60 per day (and they wanted it in US CA$H of which we paid half when we were first picked-up and the last half when we were dropped-off. The vehicle was a good size van. It all worked out well.

The driver met us at the Delhi airport when we arrived from Silliguri and he then drove us direct to Agra. He was available to us for the entire time we were in Agra (I think that he slept in the car in the hotel parking lot), and then drove us to the airport at Delhi.

We did have a guide for Fatephur Sikri, The Fort and The Taj, he was "complementary" with the car rental. We did give both the driver and guide a tip equal to about US$15 per day of service.

We let the driver take us the airport about 6:00 PM for a flight that was, like yours, not until after midnight. At the airport they don’t allow you to enter the terminal until two or three hours before your flight. We had to wait in the lounge across the street which was not very comfortable. The whole airport departure thing was the only truly unpleasant time spent in India. We wanted to kill more time before going to the airport, but felt sorry for the driver and let him go home to his family somewhere in Delhi.
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Old Aug 18th, 2006, 08:18 PM
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i have two nites scheduled for the agra sheraton and am very much looking forward to it largely based on wayne's and bonita's past comments...i thought the time was about right....it allows you to arrive there on day one from someplace....have a good nites' sleep and then spend a full day enjoying the taj and baby taj and any shopping that you can find....some say there is excellent shopping there, but most say the only thing worth your times are the historic buildings....i am hoping to find both enjoyable...

we are also staying in the sheraton in jaipur...
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Old Sep 26th, 2006, 08:12 AM
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I have stayed at the Sheraton Agra. OK, fine. Whilst there you can take a guided tour to the 'Baby Taj' Itimad-ud-Daulah's tomb, Fatehpur Sikiri, Sikandra, Bharatpur Bird Sanctuary and take lunch at the Laxmi Vilas Palace. A good 2-day stay. The Shatabdi Express train leaves Agra every night at 8:16 and gets to Delhi at 1045. Because of flight timings, it would be best to have an early supper and take a car direct to Delhi airport.
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Old Sep 26th, 2006, 07:03 PM
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Having spent a lot of time in India spread over forty years, it irritates the dickens out of me suddently to hear one of the most beautiful places in Agra, Itimad-ud-Daulah, referred to as the "Baby Taj." Nothing seem sacred to the tour operators who create such monstrous cute names to whip up tourist interest. Having vented my spleen at this egregious commercialization of a here-to-fore seldom visited shrine, I encourage you to spend at least two days in Agra, a city I have always thought given insufficient attention. The fort, Sikandra, Fatepur Sikri, Itimad-ud-Daulah, and just outlying suburbs around the latter are interesting places. You'll see the darnest things---maybe even a god being drawn in a carriage through the neighborhood. Or, stop at a Hindu temple, meet the priests, and learn a little about a major world religion. Maybe I'm an idealist, but I always hope that American and European visitors to India will transcend their desires to relax in a luxury hotel and seek to gain understanding of the history and culture of a civilization far older than their western heritage. ZZ
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Old Sep 28th, 2006, 01:57 AM
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I agree with the response about Itmad-ud-Daulah's tomb, but having been given the name 'Baby Taj' that is now a common description.
Having been designed by a lady, and built 7 years before the Taj Mahal, to me it is more beautiful but not as magestic as the Taj. The marble fretwork and inlaid semi-precious stonework was an inspiration to the architects and artisans of the Taj, and it deserves every bit of admiration.
Big tour groups never get to see it (Lucky for others), because of the need to cross a very busy bridge to get there. However, being in amongst bullock carts, porters pushing all sorts of goods, and seeing the hotel sheets being boiled and dried on the sands of the Yamunna are all pieces of the mosaic of Indian life
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Old Sep 28th, 2006, 10:17 AM
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Well said! ZZ
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Old Sep 28th, 2006, 09:16 PM
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Is it too much to see Taj Mahal, Agra Fort and Itmadulla's tomb (Baby Taj) all in one day? I also want to go see the back side of the Taj from the Yamuna River. Is it hard to get to? I'll have a car that day.

Also, is there a good train from Agra to Delhi beside the Bhopal Shatabdi Express? This train leaves really late at 8:45 p.m. and gets to Delhi at 11 p.m. Any good/reliable train that leaves mid-day?

We have to check out of the Sheraton by 12 p.m. and what to do til 8:45 p.m. in Agra? I'd rather get to Delhi earlier too.

Thanks.
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Old Sep 29th, 2006, 01:25 AM
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We did them all in one day - started at dawn, went back to the hotel for breakfast then did the fort and baby taj. I think we were done by 2 or 3. How about hiring a car from Delhi for the day? - That way you have total flexibility and don't have to worry about train schedules. You really don't want to be hanging around in Agra until 8:45 - although if you must, dinner at the Indian restauant at the Oberoi would be a pleasant way to spend the time.
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Old Sep 29th, 2006, 09:00 AM
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Thanks, Craig. Maybe I should reconsider driving from Agra to Delhi then. How long is the drive?
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Old Sep 29th, 2006, 09:21 AM
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i think the drive is at leat 4 hours and can be longer....a lot to do in one day imo
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Old Oct 1st, 2006, 10:43 AM
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JC 98, first of all, 2 nights in Agra is not too many. I am currently in Agra, and I am here for 3 nights, and this is my 4th trip to Agra. I think most people who don't like Agra spend either just a day or just one night here, and complain about the touts at the entrance to the Taj Mahal because that is all they take the time to see. They don't know that if they just walk 100 yards away from the Taj entrance, into the old city, the touts drop away and they can explore the little streets with no cars which are full of people, cows, pigs and alleyways. (And IMO the touts in Bali are as aggressive, and the ones outside the Grand Palace in Bangkok who will tell you it is closed to try to get you to go somewhere with them are much worse...) Just yesterday, not 200 feet from the east gate entrance to the Taj along the road to the south gate, I found a tiny Nataraj temple full of women and children chanting and playing the drums. I stood outside for about a minute and as is the usual case, a small boy saw me and invited me in. (It helps to be blonde and obviously not Indian.) I spent a very pleasant half hour sitting clapping with these women (of whom only one spoke very limited English but we managed to get along) and learning to play the small cymbals. This is the type of experience I have had all over India and I only mention it here because it happened within yards of the touts who everyone who spends less than 24 hours in Agra complains about but who really are not an issue at all IMO if you take the minute or so it takes to get away from the Taj area and really see the old city. The old city of Agra is one of my favourite places. Great street life. (This is not to be confused with the new city, which is quite hectic. I am talking about the narrow pedestrian-only streets around the Taj primarily.)

You will not find any touts at Sikrandra or Itimad-ud-daula and will have a very few at the Fort and Fatephur Sikri. It really is just the 100 yards or so by the Taj where they are a problem at all, starting right where the golf carts drop you off and you have to walk to the entrance gates. If you can engage one in conversation for the entire walk, the others will leave you alone, as they have a pretty strict code of not interfering with each others' potential customers. Having had experience with touts in 20 years in Asia, I have two approaches: my usual one is to tell them that my husband has forbidden me to buy anything (this works extremely well). I vary this by having a discussion of cost-benefit analysis in retailing, i.e. the cost of their spending time with me versus the benefit of their spending time with another person as I am clearly not going to buy anything; this discussion is admittedly one-sided on my part, but if carried on in a pleasant conversational tone while continuing walking and not looking at any merchandise, it is usually sufficient to get the tout to drop off after a few yards when they realize I am not going to buy anything, and during that time at least the others have left me alone. If I am in a mixed group, the drill we work out is that the men order their wives not to buy anything (the stern approach generally works in front of the salesmen), or use the reverse and say their WIVES have forbidden them to buy anything; this is sure to get a laugh and keep things going. The last thing you should do is shout or push anyone, just keep walking, keep calm and remember it is a football field at most you have to walk.

I came down by car from Delhi, the drive took just over 4.5 hours, which it did the one other time I did the drive, I think it is pretty consistent unless you run into huge traffic or an accident. I find the drive quite tedious and prefer the train. I think a one-way car trip is going to run you something in the neighborhood of US$150, and this is one NOT booked through your hotel which will cost you about double that. The most expensive train will be about US$16 for first class/executive class on the Shatabdi Express. If you decide you prefer to go to Delhi by car, and if are coming down by car from Jaipur (as I saw from your other posts), it is probably cheaper for you to keep the car for your stay in Agra and then use the car to go back to Delhi rather than trying to find a one-way car service to Delhi. (If you find a cheaper one-way car service, let me know, I did a good bit of searching myself for my own car getting down here this weekend (as the train schedules did not work for me due to my meeting and flight schedules), including through local work colleagues in New Delhi, and I ended up hiring a car for the whole trip as it was cheaper than paying for 2 one-way trips. My driver has been pretty much sitting in the parking lot of the Oberoi as I have been exploring Agra on foot, except for a brief trip to Sikrandra and to a Durga festival this evening.)

The very helpful front desk at the Oberoi here has given me the train schedule for Delhi, and I have included first class fares or highest class available:

Habibgang Express departs 5 am arrives 7:30 am (Nizamuddin station, Rs 525)
AP Express departs 5:30 am arrives 8 am (New Delhi station, Ts 525)
Intercity Express – departs 6 am arrives 9:30 am (Nizamuddin, Rs 236)
Mahakaushal Express – departs 6:20 am arrives 10:00 am (Nizamuddin, Rs 525)
Karnataka Express departs 8:10 am arrives 12:10 (New Delhi, Rs 525)
Utkal Express departs 10:23 am arrives 1:30 pm (NizamuddinRs 525)
Kerala Express departs 12:16 arrives 4 pm (New Delhi, Rs 525)
Hirakund Express departs 2 pm arrives 5 pm (Nizamuddin, Rs 525)
Punjab Mail departs 5 pm arrives 8:20 (New Delhi, 750)
Taj Express departs at 6:45 pm arrives 10:00 pm (Nizammuddin, Rs 266)
Shabtabdi Express departs 8:15 pm arrives 10:30 pm (New Delhi, Rs 760)

Train delays and cancellations are unlikely, although of course possible. You sometimes have fog delays in winter months in the early morning or early evening hours, but in general the trains are quite reliable. Nizamuddin station is also in Delhi and is not any less convenient for the airport than New Delhi station. (I have the schedule TO Agra from Delhi if anyone wants it, as I really have a hard time using the Indian Railways website.)

For your Agra itinerary, it is very possible, IMO in the winter to see the Taj, the Agra Fort and the Itimad-ud-daula in a day. I would definitely recco the Taj at sunrise, so much better in the winter than now when it is hot and not clear in the mornings. The Itimad-ud-daula is tiny and will not take more than 15 minutes to see unless you want to spend a lot of time looking at the marble work. I personally think Sikandra is impressive and the lawns are full of deer and monkeys. I would try to fit this in as well. (If you drive to Delhi you can stop on the way out of Agra as an alternative.) Yes, with a driver you can go across the river and see the Taj from the other side, you will also get nice views of it from the Agra Fort.

If you decide to take the train, check with the Sheraton to confirm how late you can stay. They may let you stay later than Noon which would be helpful, although there certainly is plenty do to and see in Agra and environs. They would certainly hold your luggage if you wanted to tour around until your train time, you could also hire a car for the day for local sightseeing and keep your luggage in the car until you go to the train station.

If you take the train, you might want to take an afternoon or evening train and have dinner in Delhi, perhaps at the fantastic Burkhara in the Sheraton hotel if you have not eaten there already on your trip, I can give you other reccos. The Trident Hilton out near the airport has a wonderful Indian restaurant and a good all-purpose restaurant as well, and would be a thought as well. The Radisson also near the airport has a very popular kebab place, quite casual, its like a TGIF for kebabs. I can give you the name of a reliable car service in Delhi who can meet you at the train station and take you to dinner and then to the airport. For the whole trip including waiting time at restaurants, etc up to 8 hours this should be less than US$20, but I would need to confirm that as this includes an airport run. IMO you would need to be at the airport by 11:30 pm.

I also went to Itimad-ud-daula today for the first time today in like 15 years. I don't mind the nickname, except it is a misnomer because it is nothing in appearance to the Taj at all. Aurangzeb's tomb in Aurangabad is an exact, but smaller, copy of the Taj; now that I would call a baby taj. In any event, there was a bus tour there (contrary to the above, I guess the bus tours have now found it but it was basically deserted except for the bus tour and me). The hilarious thing was that it was a bus of Russian tourists, who seem to have invaded Agra. In any event, the tour guide was going on in Russian, and then said just two words in English: "baby taj". Having been reading this thread for the past few days, I had to laugh....

rhhmk, for what it is worth, I looked at several hotels here in Agra today, as I am coming back here over Chinese New Year with some friends. I am pretty sure we want to stay at the Oberoi, but wanted to see several hotels just to make sure. (Also, it was over 95 degrees here today, I had the car and I am not a fan of the shopping in Agra so I wanted to do something to get out of the heat.) I have to say that other than the Oberoi, my favourite hotel here would be the Taj View. For value, location, rooms, and a good view of the Taj, the hotel is quite nice. The doubles are a good size with marble floors and nice new bathrooms with pedestal sinks. The suites were two good-size rooms with a canopy bed, flat screen TVs and a huge bath with separate shower. The Taj view rooms have excellent Taj views across the city, and only this hotel and the Oberoi have Taj views, albeit the Oberoi's are truly superb ones. The prices were about a third less than the Sheraton (rack rates), the suites cost about the same as a deluxe room at the Sheraton, which are basically motel rooms. You can walk out from the hotel to bits of Agra which is a nice change from the other hotels like the Jaypee Palace or the Sheraton. They do not have the great big lawns and gardens of the Oberoi or the Sheraton, but then you aren't paying Oberoi prices. They have a nice small lawn area at the back with a pretty pool. I preferred it to the Sheraton where I have stayed twice before, the first time in 1992, and I can attest after seeing it again today that they have not changed the furniture in the lobby nor the carpets in the hallways since then. For the Taj View, take a look at tajhotels.com.

I also looked at the Trident Hilton and the Jaypee Palace. The Trident was not really anything special and the location is not great, the Jaypee I would only take if I got a Palace room which are their newest rooms. I would also worry about service levels here, it is a very large convention hotel and it was the only place where I actually waited in the lobby for someone to help me, not a good sign to begin with. (For all they knew, I was a guest checking in.)




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